After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. Callaway 2018 MB irons Would bending it serve the same result? If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. That is a two club difference. Most people won't hit a 2 iron off the fairway though, so they probably won't take a divot at all As far as bounce goes, do you really think a club going 100 mph is going to be affected by 2 less of bounce? This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. All rights reserved. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. 759 Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. Step 1 for those golfers is to increase ball speed. Hybrid: Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0, 2 iron: Mizuno MP-20 HMB, Steelfiber i95 S, 39.5", Irons grab bag: 1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 3-AW Pinhawk Vertex irons, Apollo std stepped S Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. Still many worries about bending lofts due to bounce changes, and many also thinkthat shafts can lift or lower ball flight by changing dynamic loft, but without anything happening to bounce, but that cant be prevented, bounce always follows loft no matter if loft was changed due to bending, angle of attack, or adifferent shaft, all 3 scenarios has the same changes. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. By So glad this was posted. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. Hi! How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? IG: golfer_scott You might as well get a distance gap before bending. The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. JavaScript is disabled. I've never had a sand wedge bent, I suppose that could be an issue but if you open the blade a bit the bounce comes back. Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG356* TW grind. This feels like an anyone week the back-nine on Sunday could be fun. database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Bending irons 2 degrees stronger gopher99 May 9, 2021 May 9, 2021 Thread starter #1 G gopher99 Active member Joined Mar 15, 2019 Messages 233 Hi, i need some info from the more knowledgeable people on here than myself, I would like to bend my mizuno 921 forged irons 2 degrees stronger to fit in with the gapping on my wedges. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. Thats not to say this exotic land doesnt bring a classy winner. probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". By adding loft, those golfers achieve more ideal launch conditions, which means they carry shots farther and stop the ball faster on the green. A Good Fit for a Clubfitter is the Post Fit. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. 716 MB'S. It just depends. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. i dont need that. is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. Grant is a big-hitter off the tee, his driving distance ranking being fourth at Bermuda, 16th at the RSM and third at Pebble Beach, whilst he ranked highly for both his driving and greens during his KFT campaign. PING Forged wedges I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. Whether its changing the lie to improve accuracy or changing loft to make sure that the players clubs are progressively consistent, angle bending is a major factor in club performance. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. I dont want the extra length added to the shaft plus the x7 2i shaft I have for it is the last x7 shaft i have. How much of static bounce is positive at impact?..we have to start from a static bounce of MORE than the difference to have any, and 31* minus 20.2* = 10.8 static bounce is needed to get ZERO. I changed my Apex pro 19 2 degrees strong. Military. Bubba might better be able to answer that question, I know you can with the mb or cbs. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* This applies to both face angle and lie. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. The refit yielded a super driving iron. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. Great article! The palms should be aligned, that is so that the two Vs formed by your thumb and forefinger should point in the same direction, whether a bit weak or strong from the neutral position. Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood, Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company OK, quick question. . Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X Driver: Cobra Amp Cell Pro (8.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila RIP Phenom 3-wood: Titleist 906F4 (13.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila NV 7-wood: Michael Hopper whats in the bag accurate as of the WM Phoenix Open. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65xStrong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400. In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce. The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. Great article. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. Your previous content has been restored. It has been working really well for me. Still have questions? Best of luck.Chuck. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. You dont need to bend the clubs. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. Bending the loft is another story. 10.5 set at small - Reset Password I was fit for my current irons and they were bent 2 degrees strong for ball flight purposes. The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. This is a statistic that is fairly consistent across all abilities of amateur golfers with only a five percent difference across all golfers. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. There is no question that golf is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, games in which to become reasonably proficient. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. ENTER NOW! Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. Privacy Policy Is that ok? This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. As a lifelong golfer, a student of the game and having made my living in the golf equipment industry for 40-plus years, I have made it a study to observe golfers of all skill levels as they try to figure out this crazy and very difficult game. From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. 3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft. I do not find these to dig at all. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. In between, the Aussie came home fast to be 18th in Cam Smiths Australian PGA, and although he missed the cut at his home Open, sat in the top-10 after an opening 65. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. Your email address will not be published. VokeySM6 Raw- 50F, Scotty Cameron X5R Flow Neck Torched Finish. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. Will keep that in mind from now on, It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther,. You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. You get to replace the 4 iron thats gone with something you can get in the air. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. GolfWRX_Official What are you trying to achieve? Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. By NYonce. It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me. You can post now and register later. Newer irons, however, are designed with a loft angle that is between 18 and 22 degrees. May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. The industry is run by marketing divisions, who are responsible for stronger lofted irons, in the mistaken belief that lower loft equals more distance. Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. **. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! Sounds like it's a long iron. Your link has been automatically embedded. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. If so why mess with perfection. About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. We'll walk you through the process and offer some simple tips and trick. What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. But there is a lot more to it than that. Thanks for the insight! The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. More photos from the event here. Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. You may want to try searching if you need more info. More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. You can post now and register later. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. A lot of mixing and matching And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. I highly recommend that golfers get fitted before making a large purchase on golf clubs. I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. You must log in or register to reply here. You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Your email address will not be published. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? Idk CG specifics on those models, but I have seen similar results with I20, and G25. Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. (I ran into this today.) Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. Good info to pass along regarding COG. We have seen significant distance improvements with all 3 of these irons, it just needs to match up with how you launch the ball. TM TPx. make it a "digger" per say? Its like that distance is just not filled. Maybe its conceptually challenging but when all sets came 3-PW with heads the size of your pinky-toe, golfers either left their 3 iron home or just used it for low punch shots back to the fairway; back then, a well-hit 6 iron would outdistance an over-muscled 3 iron seven times out of 10. Add loft for distance?????? Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. All very well getting consistent loft gaps if your distance gaps are varied. You won't notice it. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Guess I dont get it. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Remember, the set is not necessarily progressively consistent from one club to another, and therefore each club should be checked. Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. on tight fairways. Clear editor. Clear editor. Display as a link instead, Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). You can also bend the angles to a consistent specification precisely fit for any golfer. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? With added ball speed comes more launch. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. The MB and CB clubs you have need a bit more loft to get the ball launched well. Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? I truly wish customers would do their do diligence before getting fit. Military. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). I completely agree with this! Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. Here is a quick list of scenarios that might mean that you need to use a flatter lie angle in your clubs: On the flip side, here is a list of situations that might require you to get a more upright lie angle: The best way to get your loft and lie adjusted is by a professional club fitter. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. You must log in or register to reply here. My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. ProV1x-mostly. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. I know my distances with the Ping set too well and I dont want to go through a whole season of trial-and-error with new irons, so would it make sense to have my new Mizuno irons bent to the old Ping specs? Display as a link instead, At a club fitting it was pointed out that I had about a 0 aoa and was launching a bit higher than ideal. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards. weight removed), (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. Bounce means nothing. The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. Espana. Copyright 2020 GolfWRX Holdings, LLC. Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch.
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